An AS Review reporter chats with the university president about a variety of important issues that concern many students. Photo by Ricky Rath // AS Review.
By Erasmus Baxter
On November 15, AS Review reporter Erasmus Baxter had the opportunity to speak with Western President Sabah Randhawa and University Office of Communications and Marketing Director Paul Cocke about a variety of issues, including support for undocumented students, divestment from the fossil fuel industry, international students and Randhawa’s commitment to listening to student concerns. Here, the AS review is happy to present the transcript of the interview, edited for clarity.
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Erasmus Baxter: You’ve talked about how important student input is to you. I understand you have a listening session coming up this Thursday [November 17]. What are your hopes and goals for this listening question?
Sabah Randhawa: Good question! It’s always difficult when you have a campus of 15 to 16 thousand students, how you connect with a lot of people. Certainly I’ve had the opportunity to meet on a fairly regular basis with the AS leadership and with the ESC Council and a number of other formal groups, but I thought about having an open session and just inviting students to come and talk a little bit about themselves and about Western.
I think the biggest thing I’m hoping to learn from [students] is what excites them about Western. As we think about the future of this wonderful institution from their perspective, what are some programs and some services that are really important and helping in their mentorship, in their education at Western? Are there other areas we need to strengthen, that we need to improve?
There are things we perhaps haven’t thought about, maybe there are programs we haven’t thought about, and they’re coming from a different perspectives in terms of how they view our society and the social and economic forces that are shaping it.
So really, I’m going in with a very open mind just to listen and to learn. One of the questions I always ask some of the other groups I’d met initially is, “If there was something we are not doing, that you think we should be doing at Western, what is it?”
EB: And you have another session in December as well?
SR: Right. So we are starting off with a couple of sessions and then we’ll see how it goes and maybe we can follow it up with some more directed dialogue. And I’m having the same thing with faculty too to get their perspective.
EB: Do you have any plans beyond those sessions to find a way to get input on a regular basis from students in that kind of open way?
SR: Again that’s a conversation that we’ve been having with [AS President] Stephanie Cheng too. We’ve been talking about some office hours, joint office hours. Stephanie and myself. Designating a few hours during the term, we’re there having a cup of coffee, please stop by and tell us what’s going on in your life.
We also talked about some kind of open, fireside chat type session. I want to see how the first two sessions go. If we don’t get too many students stopping by, is there a different way to look at this? Maybe the timing or the venue or the format? So we’ll see. What we do next will be shaped by how these two sessions go. Let me put it that way.
EB: Another thing you’ve talked a lot about is diversity, and fostering and supporting diversity at Western. One area of diversity that isn’t discussed as much is immigration status, and the role of undocumented students on campus. I just saw, I think it was over this weekend, the Blue Group published a letter asking for some more resources from university administration. What are your thoughts on that letter and do you think this is something that’s doable?
SR: Let me start off by saying that, particularly post-election, I totally understand how they are feeling. We don’t know what the new government will do. The president-elect and his government. Nevertheless, based on that statements that have been made during the election that we’ve had, there is a lot of concern going forward.
I’ve shared this with other groups too: We are really committed to our undocumented students, as we are committed to all students here at Western. To make sure that we enable their success. To make sure we create a safe environment for them. Make sure that there is space for them, particularly at times like this, where they can process their emotions, their fears, going forward.
As you may know, the university was one of the leaders in terms of advocacy for the DREAM act [that allowed undocumented students in Washington to receive financial aid]. It was really a commitment to undocumented students, and how we enable their success since they are part of our community.
We will continue to support those students and we are very closely monitoring what the incoming government is going to do, and [if] there are going to [be] impacts to them financially or otherwise and how can we provide [support].
In terms of the specific requests they are making, we’ll think about it. Again, to me, the important thing is that we support them. If things start going south and there are financial issues and things of that matter in terms of their tuition, in terms of their education and so on, that we have some way to backfill those types of things so they can complete their education.
EB: Would you be willing to go to the legislature to ask for additional funding for the kind of resources they’re asking for, and to fill those kinds of holes?
SR: To be honest with you, I’m not sure. Because we just have to wait for what type of directives we get from [the legislature and federal government]. How open they are for this type of funding.
Another way is to try to backfill [undocumented student’s financial needs] through philanthropy, and provide a lot of private scholarships for students. A lot of times [if] the feds are, the state is giving us money–Pell Grants for example, there is a certain directive attached to it. And if there is a directive from the feds or whatnot [it can] limit what we can do in terms of support.
I have a conference call this afternoon with the Council of Presidents’ office [an organization of the six presidents of public universities in Washington], and part of it is trying to have a conversation about exactly what you’re talking about: Where are they at in this particular process? And if you’re going to do it, at times there is power in doing it together. In terms of having a position and seeing where they are in this particular [issue]. It’s not just Western, it’s the other six campuses that are in the same boat.
Paul Cocke: And it’s important to note it’s very early in this process, and very little is known about what will actually happen.
SR: And you know, knock on wood, the ideal thing is nothing happens. Fears are very justified given the rhetoric during the campaign, and we need to address that fear, but obviously the ideal thing is saner heads prevail.
In fact, I was reading a couple of things today from the “Chronicle of Higher Education,” about an hour ago, from Tennessee’s Lamar Alexander, who is a Republican senator from Tennessee, saying that there is no way that the Department of Education, or Pell Grants are going away. There is way too much of an investment in those type of things. So there are good people, no matter what party they are, and I think hopefully there are the right checks and balance that can help in that process.
EB: In terms of the specific Blue Group on campus, I know they’ve asked to meet with members of the administration. Do you have any plans to meet with them, or members of your staff to meet with them, in the future?
SR: I know our staff has been in touch with them. I know Shari Robinson [director of the counseling center], is chairing a group here that is closely monitoring how our students, the reaction that’s happening.
PC: I would just say it’s a committee. A response commitee kind of.
SR: A committee. And she’s the head of counseling here. And so what we’re doing, the intent of the group, is really not just the undocumented students, but all the groups that have feelings of fear or disconnect, or hear things on the media, or other ways, that are not positive. On both sides of aisle. That we closely monitor and take care of them.
Anyhow, to your specific question, we have been in touch with the Blue Group in terms of their concerns and the requests that they have made, and would certainly be open to meeting with them as we move through the next few days.
EB: When you were at Oregon State University there was a large growth [in students], including a large growth in the number of international students who came to [OSU]. And you were a big proponent of this program. I guess people are wondering whether to expect an increase in the number of international students at Western, and whether there’s any plans to do that in the future?
SR: I’m still a big proponent of internationalization. In terms of domestic and international diversity, sort of coming together around global diversity, just because we live in a global environment that is so interconnected and even our graduates who are, say, going to be working in Washington, most of their firms are international. They’re doing business all over the world. So you need to know values and culture of different places. So I am a strong proponent of internationalization from that perspective. Not just in terms of international students on our campuses, but in terms of our students having the opportunity to go and live in and experience different cultures and different values. There is a lot to be said for it, and I think across the globe, the type of understanding and tolerance we are talking about, and I honestly think the way to do it is through these type of globalization efforts. More than anything else, I’m hopeful about your generation. You are really going to help us get to a better place from that perspective.
To your specific question about international student and Western: Currently, I think our international students are about 1 percent [of the student body] and that about 10 percent are non-resident students. Eighty to ninety percent are resident students from the state of Washington. Which I think is great.While you said we grew a lot of international students at Oregon, I was also a strong proponent that it should not come at the expense of qualified Oregonians, and I still beleive it in here. That if you do grow international students, which I do think we need to, 1 percent for student body of almost 16,000 or 15,500 is anything but diverse, at the same time, it should not be at the expense of qualified Washingtonians. And that is the mission of our university, first and foremost to provide education to the citizens of Washington.
But I do think there is a happy medium. What we did at Oregon, is not necessarily what needs to happen here. Institutions are different, cultures are different, histories are different. But I do think in terms of the value of diverse multi-cultural perspective, I think that is really important. So as we look at the strategic plan over the next year or so, put together a plan around growing internationalization, both in terms of students, but also increasing the experience of our own students. And how do we do it in a controlled manner that doesn’t impact our commitment to the state of Washington.
EB: What would you say to students or faculty members who may be concerned that the university is using international students as a way to increase the diversity of the student population on paper, but at the same time not necessarily increasing its commitment to diversity within the state and students who have traditionally been underserved or underrepresented in Washington in higher education?
SR: Yeah. I totally hear that particular perspective, and I totally understand that. I honestly think the proof is in the outcomes that you deliver. We can talk as much as we want to, and I’ve said it all along that the first priority is how do we increase success for all students here at Western, and how to eliminate achievement gaps. And really the achievement gaps to a large degree are around students who are coming from first generation students, or economic backgrounds where they didn’t have role models, and unfortunately there is a correlation between students or families from low-economic backgrounds and race. So it’s not the same thing, but there is a correlation between the two. So I think the students who would benefit from that are disproportionately students from backgrounds that have been disadvantaged. So to me, trying to focus on internationalization without focusing on equalizing success is a no go. We need to make sure that we focus on success for students from the backgrounds you are referring to. We need to take care of the house before we start changing the world, to put it mildly. So what you’re saying is absolutely critical to us.
EB: So moving away from the diversity issues, to another kind of issue that’s had a lot of discussion on campus and has really gotten a lot of people interested. The issue of divestment. I know someone asked you about that when you first came to campus, and did the campus forum.As the president you have a limited amount of control on this issue, as it is controlled by the [Western] foundation. But, just speaking personally, what are your thoughts on the issue? Do you think it’s appropriate for Western to be invested in fossil fuels? Should we be trying to move in a different direction? Where are you coming from on this issue?
SR: I think, again, a very thoughtful question. I will say, I wish you were asking simpler questions.
[Laughs.]
As you know, the structure not just at Western, but at other universities too, is typically foundations are separate 501(c)(3) entities that have a separate board that operates. And particularly for campuses of our size that have relatively smaller endowments, I think the Foundation, I genuinely think, is really trying to figure out the balance between social responsibility and fiduciary responsibility. Especially since the return from investments directly come to support programs and student scholarship and so forth.
One thing I am really interested in, and I am learning about the Foundation and how they operate, is: Are there vehicles where people can invest in socially responsible investments? I know the Foundation has had conversations with the students here at Western over the past few months, and I am going to pick up that conversation with the Foundation in terms of where we are.
I know they have been exploring that. It provides a vehicle, at least in the short term, I know trying to look at the long term is a little bit more complicated, for donors or individuals who would like to have that opportunity, or have that alternative, I think it’s very fair to have that as part of the foundation portfolio.
I understand the complexity that they are dealing with, and I think in the long term we do need to move towards responsible investments that make sure that this planet is there for generations and generations to come. The challenge always is how do we make those transitions in a way that doesn’t impact other parts of the system inadvertently, or in a way that…
PC: and it is more difficult for a mid-sized public university. Unlike Stanford university which, for example, might own thousands of shares of Exxon, and they can quickly divest, it’s different. The Foundation can explain it better, but they’re in mutual fund investment vehicles that make it difficult to pull that part.
SR: Exactly.
But the point is well taken, we certainly need to keep that issue in front of both the university and the Foundation and see if we can work towards a more sustainable solution there.
EB: Those discussions you’re talking about beginning with the Foundation, is that a new initiative that you’re starting, coming in as the new president?
SR: I wouldn’t say a new initiative, because I think the conversation has been going on, and I really respect the work that the students have done too, and I know there are some faculty who have also been part of those conversations. So I wouldn’t call it new, but it’s something that, going forward in terms of my conversation with the Foundation, I would like to see where we go with it. I know that, I had been briefly briefed that, they had been thinking about that alternative, so I’d like to follow up and see where we are in that conversation and what do we need to do during this academic year.
EB: Just two more questions for you, and then you can get back to your busy day.
SR: Oh no. Don’t worry.
EB: So there was one thing I wanted to give you the opportunity to address. Last spring I was on the Western Front and I covered the trustees meeting where they finalized your contract and we were talking about in class afterwards, and one thing that struck professors and students was the size of your compensation package. Your package was a 12.5% increase from President Shepard’s and you get a house and a car, as I’m sure you know. To some students who are struggling with tuition, or adjunct faculty who are making $30k a year, this seems to them perhaps like a double standard. What would you say to those people who feel that way?
SR: I again, hear and I can certainly understand their position. I think to a large degree, well, it is something that is to be market driven and certainly I understand that it is a 12% increase from what President Shepard was making, but it is also a 12% decrease from what I was making at Oregon State. So if you look it that way, in many ways I said, that to me, the insulation is more important than trying to match or exceed the salary. And I tell you that there aren’t many folks who will take a salary cut, wherever they’re going, even if it’s within the institution or outside. And if you can’t match our salary it’s a no-go. But to me, again, I was really excited about Western.
EB: Cool! Well, final question. Do you have any Thanksgiving Plans?
SR: We do. Initially our thinking was just to stick around and have our daughter join us, but then we learned we have some old friends in Oregon whose son is getting married so we’ll have to go down to Salem, Oregon for that. Since my daughter is finishing her degree in Oregon, instead of her commuting here, what we’ll do is just go have Thanksgiving with her, then the celebration, which will be an opportunity, you know a lot of our old friends will be there. Knock on wood it will be a quiet Thanksgiving, there won’t be an emergencies. Otherwise, I’ll be here.
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Thank you for reading. To speak with Sabah yourself and bring up your own questions, concerns and thoughts with the president, consider attending the next listening session, which will be held on December 1.