Disability Justice Advocates Kicked Out of Naomi Grossman Talk On Disability Advocacy

[Naomi Grossman (left) talks to disability rights advocates who disrupted her talk in Miller Hall 152, Wed., Nov. 8. Hailey Hoffman // AS Review]
By Julia Berkman

CW: Ableism and sexual assault joke

Western students and community members were outraged following what was seen as an insensitive event hosted by AS Productions.

Police were called to actor Naomi Grossman’s talk on disability in the media, Wednesday, November 8, after disability justice advocates took the floor to protest an able-bodied actor speaking on disability advocacy.

Lulu, a disabled person who is part of the Bellingham Deaf and Disability Justice Collective, interrupted the beginning of the talk alongside a supporter bearing a banner reading  Nothing About Us Without Us.

“The speaker who was chosen is not an appropriate candidate to be speaking on the topic. She is not an academic in the field of disability studies, but more importantly, she is not disabled,” Lulu, who only gave their first name, said in a later statement. “She is merely an actress who has ‘cripped up’ as a disabled character for a role. To insinuate that this gives her the authority and understanding to be speaking on this subject makes a mockery of disabled experience.”

Lulu also criticised the fact that Grossman was profiting off the event and signing autographs, claiming it was “a slap in the face.”

Grossman later said she did not sign any autographs, although she did take pictures with fans from the audience.

In a later interview, Grossman defended the talk and challenged disabled and non-disabled advocates alike to find a bigger ally than her.

“From an educational institution, you would expect there to be a conversation that isn’t just one sided, but rather back-and-forth, both listening and responding,” she said. “This was disappointing, especially when [the protesters] were so obviously uneducated. Had they done their research, had they actually watched the show, listened to me speak, it would have been very different.”

The day before the event, the AS Disability Outreach Center and Womxn’s Identity Resource Center pulled their co-sponsorship after discovering that Grossman, who plays Pepper on the TV show American Horror Story, does not have a disability. This information came after weeks of being told that Grossman did, indeed, have a disability, WIRC Coordinator Katie Wallis said in a Facebook post.

AS Productions Special Events Coordinator Courtney Manz, who organized the event, attributed the misunderstanding to busyness.

“We [ASP] knew she was able bodied the entirety of the event planning… [The WIRC and DOC] didn’t know because they did not research the event,” she said in a text message. “I did send them all of the emails I received about the event, including the summary of the event and all about Naomi. I think they were really busy, and I totally understand that.”

Manz said she personally wanted to cancel the event, but due to Grossman’s contract, was unable to. Before the event, she personally apologized to the crowd for “doing the wrong thing” and to anyone who has hurt or upset.

AS Productions also released a statement on Facebook, Tuesday.

“We acknowledge that someone who is able-bodied does not know the experiences of someone with disabilities and, therefore, is not accurately able to describe those experiences,” the ASP said in a Facebook post, signed by the ASP Director. “We booked her as we believe this lecture can bring up much needed discussions about stereotypes, discrimination, advocacy and support.”

After the protesters left, Grossman began the talk on the subject of humanizing people with disabilities. Over the course of the talk, Grossman made controversial remarks about her disabled co-stars, as well as making a joke about the word rape. 

Rain King, sociology major, stand-up comedian and physically disabled person who uses forearm crutches, arrived late to the talk, but was less than impressed.

“[Grossman] basically said that there’s an honor to the disabled, that they’re inherently inspiring, the supercrip model, et cetera, even though they’re horrifying to look at, they have a golden heart, and that’s really fucked up,” they said. “It removes the person behind it and uses their visual story as a background. That should not be- why are we paying for this to be presented to us?”

King said they supported the protesters.

“The school has repeatedly tried to sideline disabled individuals and not let them speak and not hear them out,” they said. “So I feel like we demand to be heard, and I really commend [the protestors]. Whenever I walk into a room I know people are staring at me, I know people will take notice of me.”

Lulu agreed with King.

“The statements that were made by [Grossman] after we were removed were more horrifying than I could have expected and just reinforce my initial critiques of her ‘advocacy’,” Lulu said.

Other students shared their reactions to Grossman’s talk online and the next day in a large banner hanging from the seventh floor Viking Union balcony.

Emmaline Bigongiari, an activist and Western student, unfurled the banner on Thursday reading: Disability is not a costume. AS Productions, listen to disabled folks!

“The apathy displayed by students who attended the event last night was really appalling, and those of us who are able-bodied need to do a lot better to listen to disabled folks and respect their ideas and needs,” Bigongiari said in a statement.

AS President Simrun Chhabra agreed with Bigongiari and said that the board would be drafting a letter to send Grossman, as well as a resolution about future events to ensure that, whenever possible, they won’t be co-opted by allies.

Two hours before the event began, ASP decided to move the talk from Arntzen 100 to Miller Hall 152. The event had an RSVP turnout of 30, far less than what the original lecture hall was capable of holding. In actuality, the event drew a crowd of around 62. Many students were there for a class requirement.

When Lulu took the stage they asked for Grossman to replace her presentation with podcasts and online talks from actual people with disabilities. Grossman, members of the audience and student security guards replied that the space was reserved. They recommended that Lulu go elsewhere.

Lulu refused and continued to sit up front while Grossman attempted to speak. Each time she began a new sentence or answered an audience question, Lulu would interject with comments like “How much are you getting paid for this?” and “Y’all will show up for non-disabled people but not for disabled people.”

Grossman objected to the questions.

“I think [asking how much I was paid] was so gross. The fact is, I don’t ask people what they make for a living and for the same reason, it’s rude to ask me the same. It’s none of your business,” Grossman said in a later interview.

In response to being criticized for taking away roles from disabled actors, Grossman replied that the protesters obviously had not seen the series, or they would understand the roles requirements.

“If only disabled people are allowed to talk about or play disabled people, then I don’t know… I mean, that’s crazy!” she said. “Are straight males not allowed to write female protagonists? Are homosexuals not allowed to play straight? We as a society are starting to alienate our own allies, and the fact is, I am one.”

In their statement, Lulu cited a study that found, of characters with disabilities on top TV shows, less than two percent of the actors had disabilities, and pointed out that disabled actors are almost completely excluded from roles that aren’t explicitly written as being disabled.

“When non-disabled actors take these roles they are often heavily celebrated performances, resulting in awards and huge professional success,” they said. “Every time an able-bodied actor like Naomi plays a disabled character it makes it harder for disabled actors to work.”

Grossman later said she included the same statistic in her talk.

The protest was met with mixed reactions. Some people lamented the delay, many because they had to attend this event for a class and needed to write about it. Some people wanted to hear Grossman speak. Others were interested in what the Lulu had to say.

“We need more disabled writers, producers, academics and advocates. And we can do that by not allowing them to be spoken over by non-disabled people,” Lulu said in their statement.

In a later interview, Grossman addressed concerns about whether allies are speaking out- or speaking over- marginalized voices.

“Why should one’s voice be any more important than the other? What are [disability advocates] after, ultimately?” she asked. “If we’re asking for equal rights, we should expect equal say, not preferential treatment. For that reason, no, I shouldn’t be any less [featured] than some disabled actor. I mean, I’m close friends with disabled and able-bodied actors on the show alike.”

Lulu was not to be deterred.

“I’m upset that you think it is okay to be [speaking on disability] when you’re not disabled,” they said. “[This subject] could be said better by someone else who has actually lived this experience… A marginalized person can speak better to their experience than anyone else.”

As the scene grew increasingly hostile, Grossman tried to regain control of the conversation by appealing to fans in the room.

“Evan Peters- he’s super cute, he’s really nice, he’s not dating Emma Roberts. Jessica Lange? Super cool. Am I coming back for another season? Who knows!” Grossman said in a shaky voice. (Grossman later confirmed that Evan Peters and Emma Roberts are dating).

Eventually, the cops showed up. Lulu, the sign-holder, and 10 other people walked out of their own volition and left without citations after speaking with University Police.

Josey Butcher, who walked out along with the disability advocates, stood up and implored attendees to sign up for DOC events.

“Y’all need to show up for real people with disabilities,” Butcher said.

“Are you disabled?” Grossman asked them.

“No,” Butcher replied. The crowd laughed.

Thus began Grossman’s talk, almost 40 minutes later than scheduled. Audience members asked if it was alright that they had filmed the protest and Grossman replied, “As long as she looks crazy and I don’t!”

Grossman told the audience that although she didn’t have microcephaly, she was able to emulate the disorder after studying the movie “Freaks” by Tod Browning.

After watching the movie “Freaks”, Grossman said she found the portrayal of the disabled characters to be exploitative and played for a shock factor.

She later confirmed that she also had met with people with microcephaly before taking the role.

Despite being able-bodied, Grossman assured the audience that she still was an advocate on disability.

“Like Jeffrey Tambour, who has become an advocate for trans rights, I think I am uniquely qualified to talk about disability,” Grossman said. “This is a real disorder, it is not funny. The last thing I would want was to be accused of making fun, or of stealing, a disabled actor’s role.”

Grossman combatted claims that she was stealing an actor’s role with one reason: aliens. In episode nine of American Horror Story: Asylum, Pepper, who Grossman described as a “creepy, microcephalic creature,” is turned “normal” by aliens. Grossman argued that a person with microcephaly could not adequately go through this transformation. 

“Believe me, if there was anyone who was going to attempt to cast a disabled person, it was Ryan Murphy. I’m just an actress in Hollywood who got a break. Give me a break,” Grossman said about the casting process in a later interview.

The actor also discussed meeting the cast of AHS: Freakshow for the first time. She was, at first, confused about how to best approach co-star Mat Fraser, who has shortened arms due to phocomelia, and shake his hand.

“But then I thought to myself, ‘Right, he’s a person!’ and shook his hand,” Grossman said. She also referred to her other castmate, the late Rose Siggins, as a “lovely torso on a skateboard.”

According to Grossman, these jokes between her and her castmates were in good taste. They all laughed together. Once, a spelling error made by late castmate Ben Woolf had the cast switching the word “wrap” with “rape.”

“It was hilarious- we were saying things like ‘What time did you rape yesterday?’ or ‘I can’t wait for the rape party!’ for weeks,” Grossman said. No one laughed.

The presentation went on like this: Grossman described her work teaching acting classes to disabled people and the close friends she had made thanks to the opportunity to play Pepper.

King, the stand-up comedian, found the anecdotes to be blatant inspiration porn.

“What [Grossman’s students] did was inspiring because they didn’t feel bad about themselves, ever. Everyone faces issues, so why am I inherently inspiring to you?” they said. “I want to see disabled people that aren’t inherently good- I want to be able to have a complex role.”

In the later interview, Grossman said:

“I have spoken around the world, from disabled communities in Sweden to Moscow. Literally around the world, and I’ve never encountered [this treatment] before in my life. It was shocking and really disappointing. To be encountered by my own people, who are so liberal to the point that they become conservative, it’s like… pick your battles,” Grossman said.

“There’s not a day that goes by that I don’t get some sort of social media interaction from someone, be it a disabled person, to someone close to a someone who’s disabled- you name it- who say, ‘Thank you. Thank you for [Pepper’s] depiction.’

In Lulu’s statement, they turned and addressed Grossman directly.

“Naomi, I don’t doubt that you came here with good intentions and to be an advocate for disabled people, but that fact that you thought that this was an appropriate way to do it only shows that you do not have the experience and understanding of how ableism works to be doing something like this.”

Correction: This story has been updated to correct a quote from Lulu. They said “non-disabled” not “fake disabled.” Also, the names of the Womxn’s Identity Resource Center, Katie Wallis and Josey Butcher have been corrected. They were originally referred to as the Womxn’s Issue Resource Center, Katie Wallace and Josie Butler.
11/12: This story has also been updated with further clarifications from Grossman, including to reflect that she met with people with microcephaly before playing Pepper. Some of her quotes have also been expanded.
11/15: Updated to clarify that the role’s requirements, not the casting process is what Grossman saw as making it unavailable for a microcephalic person. Also, that Evan Peters is dating Emma Roberts and the audience at 62 people in it before the walk out, instead of 40.